1 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:17,170 [Music] 2 00:00:25,490 --> 00:00:20,659 welcome to shattered reality with their 3 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:25,500 hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to 4 00:00:35,079 --> 00:00:28,529 have your paradigm shifted in the truths 5 00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:35,089 questioned and now shattered reality oh 6 00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:38,100 hi fruta here we are again here we are 7 00:00:48,860 --> 00:00:41,670 and you go to Slater's today yes yes 8 00:00:52,220 --> 00:00:48,870 today is April 25th ok 2017 and this is 9 00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:52,230 our is it our 50th I don't run cast I 10 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:54,480 don't know if it's a 49th or 50th to 11 00:00:59,540 --> 00:00:57,210 start to blend yes well they well this 12 00:01:02,689 --> 00:00:59,550 is not going to blend because this is a 13 00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:02,699 fabulous guest that we have here today 14 00:01:07,490 --> 00:01:04,800 yeah we're very fortunate to have with 15 00:01:09,950 --> 00:01:07,500 us today Leslie cane she is an author 16 00:01:11,930 --> 00:01:09,960 who has said in my opinion and certainly 17 00:01:14,889 --> 00:01:11,940 lots of other people's opinion a very 18 00:01:18,410 --> 00:01:14,899 high bar for investigative journalism 19 00:01:22,460 --> 00:01:18,420 her ability to do this was demonstrated 20 00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:22,470 by her last book UFOs generals pilots 21 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:24,479 and government officials go on the 22 00:01:30,139 --> 00:01:27,030 record for anybody who is newly 23 00:01:32,570 --> 00:01:30,149 interested in UFOs this really should be 24 00:01:35,089 --> 00:01:32,580 your go-to book absolutely yeah 25 00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:35,099 but today our discussion is going to 26 00:01:42,499 --> 00:01:39,209 concern her new book surviving death and 27 00:01:46,070 --> 00:01:42,509 I would say death is probably the one 28 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:46,080 thing that all humans have in common to 29 00:01:49,639 --> 00:01:48,030 most of us are passing leaves no 30 00:01:52,249 --> 00:01:49,649 apparent trace behind 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:52,259 however Leslie Kane has investigated 32 00:01:57,499 --> 00:01:55,050 instances where this may not be the case 33 00:02:00,740 --> 00:01:57,509 and that is the theme of this 34 00:02:04,070 --> 00:02:00,750 extraordinary compendium of evidence for 35 00:02:06,650 --> 00:02:04,080 an afterlife so welcome to our show miss 36 00:02:08,330 --> 00:02:06,660 Leslie Kane oh it's great to be with 37 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:08,340 both of you thanks for having me 38 00:02:13,699 --> 00:02:10,830 ok it's our pleasure entirely and and 39 00:02:17,150 --> 00:02:13,709 for my part I have to say that this is 40 00:02:19,130 --> 00:02:17,160 really real I guess the word is magnum 41 00:02:21,460 --> 00:02:19,140 opus is that a good word yes that would 42 00:02:29,470 --> 00:02:25,930 it's really very complete in its scope I 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:29,480 like the way you went from very simple 44 00:02:37,060 --> 00:02:33,530 things to more exotic things to like 45 00:02:39,460 --> 00:02:37,070 really exotic things at the event yeah 46 00:02:43,330 --> 00:02:39,470 physical mediumship is about as exotic 47 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:43,340 as it gets you really did a wonderful 48 00:02:51,310 --> 00:02:46,970 job and thank you for doing it we do 49 00:02:54,490 --> 00:02:51,320 have questions for you and a lot of a 50 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:54,500 lot of people who found out that we were 51 00:02:59,800 --> 00:02:56,450 having you on showed a great deal of 52 00:03:03,130 --> 00:02:59,810 interest and in the idea of hearing you 53 00:03:05,860 --> 00:03:03,140 speak on this subject after having done 54 00:03:11,380 --> 00:03:05,870 such a fabulous job with the UFOs 55 00:03:14,830 --> 00:03:11,390 because it is really one of maybe two or 56 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:14,840 three go to books that that I own on 57 00:03:21,490 --> 00:03:18,410 UFOs I put it out there with Colonel 58 00:03:24,190 --> 00:03:21,500 John B Alexander's book and the 59 00:03:28,540 --> 00:03:24,200 historical books of Richard Dolan 60 00:03:30,699 --> 00:03:28,550 insofar as those books if you know he's 61 00:03:32,860 --> 00:03:30,709 got thousands of cases of people having 62 00:03:35,350 --> 00:03:32,870 sightings if just two or three of them 63 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:35,360 are real and I'm going to use your 64 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:39,050 expression the white crow idea well then 65 00:03:43,509 --> 00:03:41,930 it's a done deal isn't it yeah doesn't 66 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:43,519 it only takes a little bit of evidence 67 00:03:50,650 --> 00:03:48,050 that if it's right on to make the point 68 00:03:53,020 --> 00:03:50,660 that's right so you begin your study 69 00:03:56,740 --> 00:03:53,030 with instances of children with past 70 00:03:58,780 --> 00:03:56,750 life memories this I think is I don't 71 00:04:00,790 --> 00:03:58,790 know about you for sure but this is the 72 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:00,800 thing that most of the people I spoke to 73 00:04:06,729 --> 00:04:03,050 about your book were most interested in 74 00:04:08,710 --> 00:04:06,739 and although I've had I have heard of 75 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:08,720 this from time to time it to be honest 76 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:11,090 it was never really a major source of 77 00:04:15,430 --> 00:04:13,250 interest to me but some of the instances 78 00:04:17,770 --> 00:04:15,440 that you mentioned are just unbelievable 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:17,780 especially that one little fella James 80 00:04:22,030 --> 00:04:18,410 Leininger 81 00:04:23,710 --> 00:04:22,040 oh yeah that was if you could just tell 82 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:23,720 the audience a little bit about that I'm 83 00:04:28,420 --> 00:04:26,290 sure they'd be fascinated and hearing 84 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:28,430 absolutely and I agree with you these 85 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:30,710 cases are extremely interesting and 86 00:04:33,410 --> 00:04:32,690 highly evidential partly because the 87 00:04:35,870 --> 00:04:33,420 children and 88 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:35,880 alter Soyoung mm-hmm and in the case of 89 00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:37,590 James Leininger that you mentioned he 90 00:04:41,210 --> 00:04:39,360 was only two years old and literally 91 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:41,220 from the time he was beginning to talk 92 00:04:45,830 --> 00:04:43,620 he was talking about these memories he 93 00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:45,840 had not only were they memories of the 94 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:47,520 past life but he had a lot of knowledge 95 00:04:52,010 --> 00:04:51,330 about airplanes and he was obsessed with 96 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:52,020 them 97 00:04:55,190 --> 00:04:54,000 and there was if this was knowledge that 98 00:04:57,830 --> 00:04:55,200 he couldn't possibly have learned 99 00:04:59,360 --> 00:04:57,840 anywhere from anybody and there were 100 00:05:00,680 --> 00:04:59,370 lots of things he told his parents I 101 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:00,690 mean I'll have to give you a very 102 00:05:05,390 --> 00:05:02,250 thumbnail sketch because we don't have a 103 00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:05,400 lot of time but he ended up just 104 00:05:10,670 --> 00:05:08,550 describing the specific type of aircraft 105 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:10,680 that he flew giving the name of it the 106 00:05:16,580 --> 00:05:13,050 name of his best friend in this previous 107 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:16,590 life he described being shot in the 108 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:18,930 front of his airplane by what he said 109 00:05:24,230 --> 00:05:22,050 what was by the Japanese and he just 110 00:05:26,030 --> 00:05:24,240 said the name of the the aircraft 111 00:05:28,970 --> 00:05:26,040 carrier that he flew from which was the 112 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:28,980 Natoma and he also another interesting 113 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:32,010 thing was he had very very intensive 114 00:05:36,350 --> 00:05:34,290 nightmares for quite a period of time in 115 00:05:39,290 --> 00:05:36,360 which he relived the experience of this 116 00:05:41,330 --> 00:05:39,300 plane crash and was absolutely terrified 117 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:41,340 and eventually he started to have the 118 00:05:44,870 --> 00:05:43,290 nightmares before he could even talk and 119 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:44,880 once he could talk he started to 120 00:05:49,940 --> 00:05:47,250 describe what they what was going on he 121 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:49,950 wake up screaming airplane crash on fire 122 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:52,530 little man can't get out and when his 123 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:54,210 parents asked him who was the little man 124 00:05:59,300 --> 00:05:56,610 he would say James they just thought he 125 00:06:01,610 --> 00:05:59,310 was talking about himself and so anyway 126 00:06:03,140 --> 00:06:01,620 lots of events happened over time he he 127 00:06:05,420 --> 00:06:03,150 revealed more and more very very 128 00:06:07,550 --> 00:06:05,430 specific information he he pointed to 129 00:06:08,780 --> 00:06:07,560 the location of the crash in a book when 130 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:08,790 he was looking at a book with his dad 131 00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:12,090 and he also made a lot of drawings in 132 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:14,820 which he drew that the aircraft being 133 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:17,490 shot down and and signed them all James 134 00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:19,680 3 whose parents didn't know what the 135 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:22,710 three meant and eventually after a lot 136 00:06:27,230 --> 00:06:25,620 of work with going to veterans meeting 137 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:27,240 and trying to follow up on what his 138 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:29,970 child was telling him James's dad Bruce 139 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:32,370 was able to find who this person was 140 00:06:38,090 --> 00:06:34,860 that there was a person and his name was 141 00:06:40,610 --> 00:06:38,100 actually James Houston jr. and what was 142 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:40,620 fascinating about that was that the jr. 143 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:43,350 meant that little James was James 3 144 00:06:47,090 --> 00:06:45,930 right and he when he had drawn all those 145 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:47,100 pictures he 146 00:06:50,330 --> 00:06:48,570 parents would say why you signing him 147 00:06:53,690 --> 00:06:50,340 James three and he'd say I'm the third 148 00:06:55,250 --> 00:06:53,700 James so his dad was absolutely stunned 149 00:06:57,230 --> 00:06:55,260 when he went to a veteran's I mean he 150 00:07:00,050 --> 00:06:57,240 tracked down Jack Larson who was the 151 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:00,060 name of the the friend that little James 152 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:02,490 had given him and found out that James 153 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:04,650 Houston jr. was a pilot who was killed 154 00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:07,500 in 1945 in World War two and matched all 155 00:07:11,630 --> 00:07:09,720 the information that little James had 156 00:07:14,750 --> 00:07:11,640 provided what matched this particular 157 00:07:17,450 --> 00:07:14,760 person James actually then they ended up 158 00:07:19,460 --> 00:07:17,460 meeting the family the sister of James 159 00:07:21,860 --> 00:07:19,470 Houston jr. who at the time was in her 160 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:21,870 80s and little James told her all kinds 161 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:23,970 of information about his childhood 162 00:07:28,940 --> 00:07:26,250 growing up in the family and things that 163 00:07:30,590 --> 00:07:28,950 he couldn't possibly have known and so 164 00:07:32,540 --> 00:07:30,600 what's really important about this case 165 00:07:34,580 --> 00:07:32,550 is that the fact that the information he 166 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:34,590 provided was so cific and then it could 167 00:07:39,050 --> 00:07:37,530 be verified as accurate because if 168 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:39,060 somebody tells you they have a past life 169 00:07:43,370 --> 00:07:41,850 memory and you can't verify any of it 170 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:43,380 you have no way of knowing whether the 171 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:46,050 memory is means anything or not but in 172 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:47,970 this case everything was was on the 173 00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:50,370 record before they located James Houston 174 00:07:55,220 --> 00:07:52,710 and all the information that he provided 175 00:07:57,530 --> 00:07:55,230 matched this person and so that's very 176 00:08:01,040 --> 00:07:57,540 significant and really what other 177 00:08:02,150 --> 00:08:01,050 explanation can there be I find it hard 178 00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:02,160 to come up with what I mean the only 179 00:08:06,070 --> 00:08:04,620 competing explanation might be that 180 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:06,080 there was some kind of psychic 181 00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:08,910 perception that James Leininger had that 182 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:12,000 for some reason plugged into the life of 183 00:08:15,950 --> 00:08:14,010 this person who lived you know who died 184 00:08:18,830 --> 00:08:15,960 50 years before he was born I mean it 185 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:18,840 seems the harder explanation for me to 186 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:21,390 accept but if somebody doesn't want to 187 00:08:24,950 --> 00:08:23,490 accept the possibility of the survival 188 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:24,960 of consciousness they might argue that 189 00:08:29,990 --> 00:08:27,450 it was some bizarre psychic ability that 190 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:30,000 he had or of course somebody could argue 191 00:08:41,870 --> 00:08:39,650 who's an expert in these cases spent has 192 00:08:43,459 --> 00:08:41,880 ruled that out it's just not possible 193 00:08:45,590 --> 00:08:43,469 and I'm not gonna go into all the 194 00:08:48,770 --> 00:08:45,600 reasons why but it isn't no I don't I 195 00:08:52,190 --> 00:08:48,780 don't think that we the focus of this 196 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:52,200 show need to talk too much about the 197 00:08:57,710 --> 00:08:54,210 idea of a hoax 198 00:09:00,900 --> 00:08:57,720 I don't even want to kind of go there 199 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:00,910 with this show I thought that 200 00:09:07,050 --> 00:09:04,450 it really isn't but I will point out one 201 00:09:09,710 --> 00:09:07,060 thing about that about the these past 202 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:09,720 lives of young children which I think 203 00:09:14,940 --> 00:09:12,310 the children are reporting what they 204 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:14,950 feel what they think but even to my 205 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:18,270 knowledge Jim Tucker offers one other 206 00:09:22,650 --> 00:09:21,010 variant on the explanation and I'm not 207 00:09:24,270 --> 00:09:22,660 saying it's true or false I don't know 208 00:09:27,050 --> 00:09:24,280 what's true or false but the other 209 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:27,060 variant that he had pointed out was that 210 00:09:35,690 --> 00:09:30,930 it's perhaps possible that the spirit of 211 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:35,700 let's say James James the original 212 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:40,210 fighter pilot that his spirit passed 213 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:43,530 through somehow the spirit of James 214 00:09:52,350 --> 00:09:49,170 Leininger and thereby gave him all this 215 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:52,360 information and that is not exactly a 216 00:09:58,020 --> 00:09:55,210 psychic explanation like that that the 217 00:10:00,030 --> 00:09:58,030 little boy was a had super sigh as you 218 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:00,040 mentioned in a book and it's not exactly 219 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:03,310 that he was the direct born-again in 220 00:10:11,870 --> 00:10:06,370 other words that he had access to the 221 00:10:14,190 --> 00:10:11,880 spiritual knowledge of James the pilot 222 00:10:16,350 --> 00:10:14,200 right no I mean I suppose that's a 223 00:10:19,290 --> 00:10:16,360 possibility too it seems kind of bizarre 224 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:19,300 why that would happen but I mean as far 225 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:21,610 as little James was concerned and this 226 00:10:25,260 --> 00:10:23,380 went on until he's about four yeah he 227 00:10:28,890 --> 00:10:25,270 was absolutely convinced that he was 228 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:28,900 that person and he had a lot of emotion 229 00:10:33,860 --> 00:10:30,850 around it it wasn't just sort of these 230 00:10:36,690 --> 00:10:33,870 memories it was actual reliving of 231 00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:36,700 things and you know so who knows I mean 232 00:10:40,860 --> 00:10:38,920 we can't say for sure but I think Jim 233 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:40,870 Tucker does believe that and he actually 234 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:42,970 wrote a chapter in my book the best a 235 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:44,530 lot of different cases and he certainly 236 00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:47,110 believes that this is the most rational 237 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:49,180 explanation for it but of course we 238 00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:52,210 can't prove it right but but you know it 239 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:54,880 starts and then it points down a path 240 00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:57,010 and that's the path you start to follow 241 00:11:02,970 --> 00:10:59,680 yeah in the book and then you go from 242 00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:02,980 there into near-death experiences and I 243 00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:06,160 think that has been shown a lot on TV a 244 00:11:12,060 --> 00:11:09,760 lot of sort of these shows get into 245 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:12,070 things like this you know the who shows 246 00:11:17,220 --> 00:11:14,290 on television 247 00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:17,230 I find those really really compelling 248 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:20,590 because that is all within the same 249 00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:22,930 personality you know someone passes on 250 00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:25,630 for brief period of time describes what 251 00:11:30,390 --> 00:11:27,400 they saw and felt and then comes back to 252 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:30,400 tell us and you give some very 253 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:33,670 compelling stories about that yeah I 254 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:35,890 mean I think that the the the 255 00:11:41,610 --> 00:11:37,930 reincarnation cases you know raise the 256 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:41,620 question of if conscious you know is 257 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:44,290 there some kind of a continuation that 258 00:11:47,930 --> 00:11:45,910 goes on of consciousness and what the 259 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:47,940 interesting thing about the veridical 260 00:11:52,590 --> 00:11:50,170 out-of-body experiences and the 261 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:52,600 near-death experiences are that they 262 00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:54,490 suggest or show really that 263 00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:55,990 consciousness can function independently 264 00:12:01,620 --> 00:11:59,050 of the brain it doesn't show that we 265 00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:01,630 necessarily that happens necessarily at 266 00:12:07,650 --> 00:12:05,380 death but it certainly shows it makes 267 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:07,660 that conceivable because if 268 00:12:10,290 --> 00:12:09,130 consciousness can function separately 269 00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:10,300 from the brain we can certainly 270 00:12:15,390 --> 00:12:13,120 hypothesize that that could happen when 271 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:15,400 we die and there are some medical 272 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:17,710 doctors such as sam par Nia who's an 273 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:20,470 expert in resuscitation science who as 274 00:12:25,740 --> 00:12:24,010 far as he's concerned and I quote him I 275 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:25,750 mean he's just he's an absolute expert 276 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:28,330 on you know dealing with people who have 277 00:12:31,770 --> 00:12:29,920 died and if I hadn't and then I'm 278 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:31,780 resuscitated and he believes that these 279 00:12:37,290 --> 00:12:33,870 people that have these experiences are 280 00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:37,300 actually as dead as anybody who actually 281 00:12:41,490 --> 00:12:39,550 dies and doesn't come back especially 282 00:12:43,950 --> 00:12:41,500 when you have cases in which the person 283 00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:43,960 is dead for let's say an hour or two 284 00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:46,300 which is good yeah it's more common now 285 00:12:49,140 --> 00:12:48,160 because they've learned that if somebody 286 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:49,150 is frozen 287 00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:51,370 I'm not frozen but if they're in a very 288 00:12:57,210 --> 00:12:54,880 cool state mm-hmm such as if they fall 289 00:12:59,520 --> 00:12:57,220 into an icy River or something like that 290 00:13:02,160 --> 00:12:59,530 and their body is cooled down they can 291 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:02,170 actually be dead for a lot longer and 292 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:04,030 still be resuscitated and it this is a 293 00:13:07,470 --> 00:13:06,130 fairly new discovery because it used to 294 00:13:09,090 --> 00:13:07,480 be thought that you only had like five 295 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:09,100 or ten minutes and then you were brain 296 00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:09,970 dead forever 297 00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:12,040 but these people as far as he's 298 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:14,230 concerned they are a corpse for say two 299 00:13:18,510 --> 00:13:16,930 hours they're then revived and then 300 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:18,520 within days they walk out of the 301 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:20,830 hospital completely normal it's amazing 302 00:13:24,329 --> 00:13:22,510 right so he doesn't really raise any 303 00:13:26,670 --> 00:13:24,339 difference in he he thinks we should 304 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:26,680 call them actual death experiences not 305 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:27,340 near 306 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:30,370 experiences so you know that really says 307 00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:33,130 something about some kind of functioning 308 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:35,950 that is going on in people even when 309 00:13:40,940 --> 00:13:38,770 they are essentially dead and that's 310 00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:40,950 that's pretty intriguing yes it is and 311 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:44,440 Leslie I would say that during this 312 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:46,510 interview I'm going to kind of be 313 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:49,810 wearing two hats one hat is kind of my 314 00:13:56,130 --> 00:13:52,810 hat as just an interviewer and the other 315 00:13:59,070 --> 00:13:56,140 hat is my hat as a professional 316 00:14:01,740 --> 00:13:59,080 intuitive reader and a person who has 317 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:01,750 had lots of psychic experiences that is 318 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:03,490 what I have done for a living for a 319 00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:06,670 large part of my life so putting on the 320 00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:08,950 Hat of the professional interviewer for 321 00:14:15,330 --> 00:14:11,800 a moment I wanted to say that the 322 00:14:18,930 --> 00:14:15,340 veridical evidence that you present I 323 00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:18,940 think is possibly the most important 324 00:14:23,550 --> 00:14:21,220 part of the book from an outside point 325 00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:23,560 of view like for from the point of view 326 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:26,620 of a person outside of this psychic 327 00:14:32,930 --> 00:14:29,710 interest group group because that 328 00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:32,940 veridical evidence points very 329 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:37,600 definitely towards the fact that I 330 00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:39,970 consider a fact and or as close to a 331 00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:41,230 fact as anything 332 00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:46,000 that consciousness is not necessarily 333 00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:49,120 you know located in the brain alone and 334 00:14:55,290 --> 00:14:51,340 that the brain is a kind of a transducer 335 00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:55,300 of consciousness right right like PIM 336 00:14:59,010 --> 00:14:57,220 van Lommel has proposed it yeah and he's 337 00:15:02,430 --> 00:14:59,020 written a brilliant chapter in the book 338 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:02,440 yes yes really really incredible about 339 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:04,210 that very point that you know whether 340 00:15:08,130 --> 00:15:06,250 that how he has discovered through 341 00:15:10,890 --> 00:15:08,140 decades of research into this as a 342 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:10,900 medical doctor that he doesn't believe 343 00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:12,730 that the brain is the generator of 344 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:15,190 consciousness as you say well you know 345 00:15:23,790 --> 00:15:19,750 the scientist the German physicist now a 346 00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:23,800 deceased Max Planck said consciousness 347 00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:26,680 is fundamental you can't get behind it 348 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:29,590 and right and he was you know the 349 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:33,850 founder of of quantum physics basically 350 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:38,050 along with a few other guys so that's 351 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:39,910 pretty so willing but what they're 352 00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:41,170 saying here is though 353 00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:44,260 that the brain is just flatlined for all 354 00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:46,420 practical purposes and is no longer 355 00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:49,600 functioning in any any way that we would 356 00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:52,269 measure and there's no parameters listed 357 00:15:59,400 --> 00:15:55,300 on a recording machine but yet the 358 00:16:02,220 --> 00:15:59,410 person is aware and aware of the 359 00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:02,230 surroundings and aware of looking back 360 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:04,750 down on a body and then coming back and 361 00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:08,290 so when they come back where do they 362 00:16:15,629 --> 00:16:11,500 come back to I guess then they start to 363 00:16:17,699 --> 00:16:15,639 use the brain to express consciousness 364 00:16:19,470 --> 00:16:17,709 is that it yeah I mean they're just back 365 00:16:21,629 --> 00:16:19,480 in their body so they sort of wake up 366 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:21,639 and they're just like they were before 367 00:16:26,490 --> 00:16:24,490 in terms of how they're functioning but 368 00:16:29,009 --> 00:16:26,500 they have the memory of what just 369 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:29,019 happened to them and the interesting 370 00:16:32,610 --> 00:16:30,490 thing about the what you want to talk 371 00:16:34,050 --> 00:16:32,620 about veridical out-of-body experiences 372 00:16:36,780 --> 00:16:34,060 what that means is that the person 373 00:16:39,780 --> 00:16:36,790 actually experiences themselves in a 374 00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:39,790 position in some physical space in the 375 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:41,920 room mm-hmm and they're looking down on 376 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:44,170 your on their bodies as as you mentioned 377 00:16:49,530 --> 00:16:47,410 and they can report back afterwards real 378 00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:49,540 things that occurred in the room or 379 00:16:52,769 --> 00:16:51,100 outside I just want you know and that's 380 00:16:55,710 --> 00:16:52,779 why it's veridical because it can be 381 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:55,720 verified as real and sometimes they're 382 00:16:59,610 --> 00:16:57,490 there they're telling you things from a 383 00:17:03,079 --> 00:16:59,620 perspective of being up on the ceiling 384 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:03,089 that they couldn't possibly have seen 385 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:06,010 from lying down on a bed I mean 386 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:07,510 certainly they're unconscious of course 387 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:09,970 so that's enough but one person reported 388 00:17:14,130 --> 00:17:12,250 seeing that the medic was bald for 389 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:14,140 instance you know lots of things that 390 00:17:16,919 --> 00:17:15,610 are from a different perspective and 391 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:16,929 they can report things that they've 392 00:17:20,699 --> 00:17:18,850 heard and tools that have been used 393 00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:20,709 while they were being operated on and 394 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:22,140 this is it at a time when they are 395 00:17:27,689 --> 00:17:24,610 absolutely no brain activity or 396 00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:27,699 heartbeat so and they also a lot of 397 00:17:31,169 --> 00:17:29,080 these experiences are very life 398 00:17:32,669 --> 00:17:31,179 transforming also they're not just like 399 00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:32,679 some kind of a dream that people 400 00:17:37,950 --> 00:17:35,260 experience them as being even more real 401 00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,960 than being in normal waking 402 00:17:41,549 --> 00:17:39,520 consciousness and it's something they 403 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:41,559 never forget and it's something that 404 00:17:46,770 --> 00:17:43,510 takes away the fear of death for most 405 00:17:49,919 --> 00:17:46,780 people that have these experiences well 406 00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:49,929 but still you know when they're in these 407 00:17:55,260 --> 00:17:52,360 these states they're still using the 408 00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:55,270 senses they see a lot of people 409 00:18:00,720 --> 00:17:58,630 port odors they'll report warmth or at 410 00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:00,730 least so that there has to be some 411 00:18:07,290 --> 00:18:04,720 memory of senses no no no the blind can 412 00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:07,300 see in these experiences sometimes as 413 00:18:13,740 --> 00:18:11,020 well if he port or blind birth so that 414 00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,750 would still that what what I've been 415 00:18:18,990 --> 00:18:15,520 trying to say is that there is a sense 416 00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:19,000 you know the five senses are also not 417 00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:22,270 just tied to organs but also somehow or 418 00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:25,960 other to this way being which brings a 419 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:29,590 point up that we as human beings only 420 00:18:34,050 --> 00:18:31,630 perceive less than 1% of the 421 00:18:42,210 --> 00:18:34,060 electromagnetic spectrum in which we 422 00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:42,220 live well ok oh you can see when you 423 00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:43,780 don't have eyes right exactly that's 424 00:18:48,750 --> 00:18:46,660 what is the point you're raising it is 425 00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:48,760 it's a real quandary I mean if you're if 426 00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:51,070 you don't have the physical organs that 427 00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:54,160 we're all used to how do you it's some 428 00:18:59,220 --> 00:18:56,440 kind of perception that one has in the 429 00:19:01,260 --> 00:18:59,230 non-physical state and it is very hard 430 00:19:03,150 --> 00:19:01,270 to conceive of and I think it's that's a 431 00:19:06,420 --> 00:19:03,160 lot of reasons the scientific community 432 00:19:08,850 --> 00:19:06,430 has a hard time accepting it it is hard 433 00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:08,860 to figure it out how it happens I think 434 00:19:15,050 --> 00:19:11,140 what it is is maybe it's a memory of 435 00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:15,060 being able to and possibly as that state 436 00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:18,070 continues that memory starts to fade and 437 00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:19,840 then there's a whole different set of 438 00:19:27,060 --> 00:19:22,780 senses that take over I don't know but I 439 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:27,070 you know I don't know but again you know 440 00:19:31,230 --> 00:19:30,010 again you sort of build your case I 441 00:19:35,130 --> 00:19:31,240 think you would have been a very good 442 00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:35,140 lawyer too and you go from that to near 443 00:19:42,290 --> 00:19:38,260 death and then I didn't you as you say 444 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,300 the after death experience is too and 445 00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:45,280 but before you got into that you really 446 00:19:50,250 --> 00:19:47,380 started to talk about mediums and how 447 00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:50,260 they could perceive people who had 448 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:52,660 passed and I think Ferruccio has a lot 449 00:19:58,260 --> 00:19:55,450 to say about that I'm not very converts 450 00:20:00,030 --> 00:19:58,270 as with mediums and so on just to start 451 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:00,040 that off I want to say that I thought 452 00:20:06,540 --> 00:20:02,650 that your choice of having Judy by shall 453 00:20:08,529 --> 00:20:06,550 write a a chapter was excellent I think 454 00:20:11,409 --> 00:20:08,539 that she 455 00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:11,419 showed a great deal of sensitivity to 456 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:14,960 the idea of what mediums do okay 457 00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:18,049 yes terrific I agree you know I'm an 458 00:20:23,529 --> 00:20:21,529 associate member of the ssee and I've 459 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:23,539 met some of these people in person and 460 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:25,610 some of them are the people in the book 461 00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:29,450 have been on the show so you know 462 00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,200 basically I am you know just about a 463 00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:35,360 hundred percent on your side but I do 464 00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:39,980 have a big big question and and you sort 465 00:20:46,299 --> 00:20:42,980 of flirt with this idea at the end of 466 00:20:49,259 --> 00:20:46,309 the book and I'm not speaking 467 00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:49,269 specifically about physical mediumship 468 00:20:56,529 --> 00:20:54,049 but the thing that I kept saying to 469 00:20:59,049 --> 00:20:56,539 myself why while I was reading the book 470 00:21:01,330 --> 00:20:59,059 because as I say I do work as an 471 00:21:03,730 --> 00:21:01,340 intuitive I don't consider myself a 472 00:21:07,509 --> 00:21:03,740 medium though I have gotten mediumistic 473 00:21:10,090 --> 00:21:07,519 information from people sometimes and I 474 00:21:13,299 --> 00:21:10,100 haven't been tested like the people in 475 00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:13,309 your book and I don't want to be but 476 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:15,529 because my my readings are much more 477 00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:17,450 free-flowing I sit with the person in 478 00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:21,769 person so forth and so on however I'm 479 00:21:25,419 --> 00:21:23,600 also a person who has had a lot of 480 00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:25,429 psychic experiences I had mentioned 481 00:21:34,269 --> 00:21:29,110 before in in talking with you just now 482 00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:34,279 so the big question I have is that it 483 00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:36,830 would seem to me that you sort of 484 00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:43,039 presented only two different options it 485 00:21:48,190 --> 00:21:45,740 was like a by not binary hypothesis 486 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:48,200 either it's human spirit communication 487 00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:51,860 or it's super sigh okay and I'm not 488 00:21:57,070 --> 00:21:55,220 saying it's not because I don't know I'm 489 00:21:59,889 --> 00:21:57,080 the first person to say I don't know 490 00:22:01,899 --> 00:21:59,899 many people they do readings of various 491 00:22:05,919 --> 00:22:01,909 sorts and they have controls like the 492 00:22:07,690 --> 00:22:05,929 the ones who are are not physical 493 00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,700 mediums the ones who are trans mediums 494 00:22:11,019 --> 00:22:09,440 they have controls and the physical 495 00:22:13,299 --> 00:22:11,029 mediums have controls and so forth and 496 00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:13,309 many readers who do this self same thing 497 00:22:17,739 --> 00:22:15,919 that I do they believe they have a 498 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:17,749 spirit guide or something like that and 499 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:19,730 I'm not saying they don't but what I'm 500 00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:22,010 saying is that there is 501 00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:25,760 least 1/3 large third possibility which 502 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:27,590 I'm just going to outline for you very 503 00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,450 briefly here and that is that what if 504 00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:35,120 it's a third thing nobody really knows 505 00:22:41,260 --> 00:22:38,440 where super sight comes from people make 506 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:41,270 remarks that it's like some pool of 507 00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:43,970 consciousness and heck it really may be 508 00:22:50,350 --> 00:22:47,390 that but what about if it's a third 509 00:22:52,330 --> 00:22:50,360 thing like a discarnate 510 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:52,340 entity which you flirt with at the end 511 00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:55,790 but you don't ever say that some of this 512 00:23:03,040 --> 00:22:59,840 information that seems to be psychic or 513 00:23:06,370 --> 00:23:03,050 the person the dead person could really 514 00:23:08,650 --> 00:23:06,380 be a discarded entity kind of 515 00:23:10,990 --> 00:23:08,660 masquerading as the person and that's 516 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:11,000 not as crazy as it seems when you think 517 00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:13,930 about what people have purported that 518 00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,140 aliens have done in two dimensional 519 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,240 beings we could think about it as the 520 00:23:25,540 --> 00:23:23,120 trickster the Oversoul of plants a whale 521 00:23:27,550 --> 00:23:25,550 spirit the spirit of the earth could be 522 00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:27,560 angels could be demons could be jinn 523 00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,620 could be a free it could be a virtual 524 00:23:35,380 --> 00:23:32,960 reality game player or programmer like 525 00:23:37,870 --> 00:23:35,390 Tom Campbell says many of these 526 00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:37,880 possibilities as crazy as they are they 527 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:41,600 positive belief system but what if it's 528 00:23:48,730 --> 00:23:45,050 a disc Arnot entity which we cannot 529 00:23:50,830 --> 00:23:48,740 identify what if that I I did I I felt 530 00:23:53,740 --> 00:23:50,840 like that could be a third possibility 531 00:23:55,540 --> 00:23:53,750 what do you think Leslie I I guess 532 00:23:57,730 --> 00:23:55,550 you're right I think what I was focusing 533 00:24:00,370 --> 00:23:57,740 on would what what seemed to be the two 534 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:00,380 most likely possibilities and the ones 535 00:24:05,470 --> 00:24:02,650 that are sort of debated extensively 536 00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:05,480 among people who investigate these 537 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:07,910 topics it's sort of like the current 538 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:10,250 debate and revolves around the the you 539 00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:12,770 know the L of living agency hypothesis 540 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:15,440 versus the survival hypothesis and so 541 00:24:19,060 --> 00:24:17,030 that's what I focused on I mean because 542 00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:19,070 I think you may have a point there but 543 00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:21,560 there's no way that I don't know I just 544 00:24:25,690 --> 00:24:23,750 seems like it's a little too obscure 545 00:24:27,730 --> 00:24:25,700 possibly for a book like this for me to 546 00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:27,740 get into that if mine there's no way one 547 00:24:32,980 --> 00:24:30,140 could ever really know and so I just 548 00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:32,990 find like I find it more useful to stick 549 00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:35,300 with the two major areas that seem to be 550 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:36,020 the more like 551 00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:38,570 and I think that they are the more 552 00:24:44,919 --> 00:24:41,260 likely possibilities to a large extent 553 00:24:47,530 --> 00:24:44,929 the one place that from my experience 554 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:47,540 and from what you say in the book in 555 00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:51,530 fact is that to me the stuff that seems 556 00:24:56,380 --> 00:24:54,440 to come from the actual spirit seems to 557 00:24:58,660 --> 00:24:56,390 come very shortly within a certain 558 00:25:01,090 --> 00:24:58,670 period after death 559 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:01,100 in fact when personal experiences have 560 00:25:06,419 --> 00:25:03,890 happened to me people I know died they 561 00:25:09,130 --> 00:25:06,429 came to me sometimes almost immediately 562 00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:09,140 sometimes within two weeks afterwards 563 00:25:15,850 --> 00:25:13,760 seldom months or years out and and then 564 00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:15,860 sometimes people have come to me who 565 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:18,559 were clients and they would say they're 566 00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:21,770 getting messages from somebody that they 567 00:25:25,630 --> 00:25:23,630 knew that was dead and they would get 568 00:25:27,490 --> 00:25:25,640 message and message and this would be 569 00:25:29,950 --> 00:25:27,500 true and that would be true true and 570 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:29,960 then suddenly they would get thrown a 571 00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:33,530 curveball like telling them something 572 00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:36,950 that was only partially true and so it 573 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:39,920 would seem to me like if there is a part 574 00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:43,130 of it that could be a dis incarnate 575 00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:46,880 entity speaking it could be in that 576 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:49,220 latter stage and I'm gonna let that go 577 00:25:52,810 --> 00:25:51,410 now I just really mean I have no way no 578 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:52,820 way of knowing I think now you now 579 00:25:56,169 --> 00:25:54,290 you're talking about direct 580 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:56,179 communications as to post it through a 581 00:26:00,190 --> 00:25:57,410 medium right you're talking about after 582 00:26:04,090 --> 00:26:00,200 death communications yes I am and I'm 583 00:26:06,340 --> 00:26:04,100 I'm also you know yes that's that's what 584 00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,350 I'm talking about and through mediums we 585 00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:08,720 don't the medium is I'm I consider the 586 00:26:13,030 --> 00:26:10,880 medium an honest broker the mediums that 587 00:26:16,780 --> 00:26:13,040 you're you saw absolutely honest brokers 588 00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:16,790 so I as I say totally discard the idea 589 00:26:22,780 --> 00:26:19,160 especially in terms of the mental 590 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:22,790 mediums of any kind of hoaxing in terms 591 00:26:27,850 --> 00:26:25,670 of the map it's absolutely no chance or 592 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:27,860 the way Julie does your stuff that there 593 00:26:33,010 --> 00:26:30,410 is any chance of hoaxing there however 594 00:26:34,990 --> 00:26:33,020 as you say you don't know and I don't 595 00:26:36,580 --> 00:26:35,000 know either and I'm the first one to say 596 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:36,590 I don't know I don't know where the 597 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:39,890 information comes from and so I just 598 00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:41,510 throw that out as a third possibility 599 00:26:48,370 --> 00:26:45,760 for all things that we are speaking of 600 00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:48,380 except okay well thank you for that okay 601 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:49,980 we'll move on then I'm so so 602 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:51,690 sorry okay you know what I was 603 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:53,850 interesting in the lessees is like the 604 00:26:58,909 --> 00:26:56,130 mediums that you contacted seem to have 605 00:27:01,640 --> 00:26:58,919 a real gift for contact and I was 606 00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:01,650 wondering um did anyone ever do and I 607 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:03,809 hate the word use hate they use the word 608 00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:07,049 scientific but sort of sort of like an 609 00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:09,720 EEG study just to see if there were any 610 00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:11,460 brain waves there anything that they 611 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:14,100 were contacted on well that's a really 612 00:27:17,150 --> 00:27:15,450 interesting thing that needs to be done 613 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:17,160 more of and as I write in the book the 614 00:27:20,990 --> 00:27:19,049 one of the mediums I saw whose name is 615 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:21,000 Laura Lynn Jackson who's an absolutely 616 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:23,910 superb medium who has since written an 617 00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:27,090 excellent book there was a scientist a 618 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:29,460 brainwave scientist when I forget what 619 00:27:33,919 --> 00:27:31,290 you you know it calls specifically who 620 00:27:36,260 --> 00:27:33,929 did study her brain and what was really 621 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:36,270 interesting about it was he that this 622 00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:39,090 was exploring the question of the two 623 00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:41,580 possibilities of of the information 624 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:45,510 being either her own personal psy or or 625 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:47,730 coming from a deceased person so we're 626 00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:49,410 looking at those two possibilities and 627 00:27:54,770 --> 00:27:52,559 he he he had her do both psychic 628 00:27:57,799 --> 00:27:54,780 readings and mediumistic readings and 629 00:28:01,400 --> 00:27:57,809 then he he tested her brain waves during 630 00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:01,410 the two different readings and was able 631 00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:03,240 to determine that they took place in two 632 00:28:07,580 --> 00:28:05,040 different parts of her brain which is 633 00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:07,590 very interesting because specifically 634 00:28:13,370 --> 00:28:09,720 because they correspond it to Laura's 635 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:13,380 own description of the screen that she 636 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:15,330 sees in front of her when she's doing 637 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:17,010 these readings and she has often said 638 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:19,650 that the psychic information or the 639 00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,110 information coming from her her own 640 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:24,480 psychic abilities is on one side of her 641 00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:27,450 screen and the mediumistic information 642 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:29,400 or information coming from the deceased 643 00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:31,290 beings is on the other side of her 644 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:33,030 screen and she's very clear about the 645 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:34,650 difference between the two of them and 646 00:28:40,820 --> 00:28:38,000 his brain charts of her brain actually 647 00:28:42,919 --> 00:28:40,830 correspond it to the exactly the the way 648 00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:42,929 Laura had described it in terms of the 649 00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:44,880 sides of her brain that these events 650 00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:47,070 took place so this this is really 651 00:28:52,580 --> 00:28:49,049 important because it shows that there is 652 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:52,590 a difference between psychic psychic 653 00:28:56,890 --> 00:28:54,690 information information that is not does 654 00:28:59,180 --> 00:28:56,900 not involve deceased people and 655 00:29:01,549 --> 00:28:59,190 information that does involve deceased 656 00:29:03,379 --> 00:29:01,559 people as least as the meet at least in 657 00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:03,389 the way the mediums describe it 658 00:29:07,219 --> 00:29:05,369 they come they're two different two 659 00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:07,229 different types of information and I 660 00:29:12,649 --> 00:29:10,799 think Laura Laura Jackson was is really 661 00:29:14,449 --> 00:29:12,659 fundamental really excellent at being 662 00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:14,459 able to make that distinction 663 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:16,440 mm-hm and that was a question I was very 664 00:29:20,779 --> 00:29:19,049 interested in during my explorations of 665 00:29:23,509 --> 00:29:20,789 mental mediumship is how the mediums 666 00:29:25,129 --> 00:29:23,519 distinguish between the two because if 667 00:29:27,949 --> 00:29:25,139 we want to make the case that there is 668 00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:27,959 information that's coming from deceased 669 00:29:30,649 --> 00:29:29,700 beings which is what the mediums 670 00:29:32,539 --> 00:29:30,659 perceive it to be 671 00:29:35,329 --> 00:29:32,549 then you'd want to know that they can 672 00:29:38,329 --> 00:29:35,339 distinguish between the two types and 673 00:29:40,699 --> 00:29:38,339 Laura was very good at that and then the 674 00:29:43,549 --> 00:29:40,709 the brain waves the brain charts that 675 00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:43,559 the scientists made of her only just 676 00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:45,659 reinforced and and showed that what she 677 00:29:50,209 --> 00:29:48,089 was talking about was actually true it 678 00:29:52,249 --> 00:29:50,219 doesn't prove that she's speaking with 679 00:29:54,349 --> 00:29:52,259 dead people right but it shows that they 680 00:29:56,119 --> 00:29:54,359 are definitely two distinct types of 681 00:29:57,109 --> 00:29:56,129 psychic of information that's coming 682 00:30:00,139 --> 00:29:57,119 through to her and that's what's really 683 00:30:02,209 --> 00:30:00,149 important I was wondering if they ran a 684 00:30:04,369 --> 00:30:02,219 control at the same time because as 685 00:30:07,399 --> 00:30:04,379 these spirits were come or whatever you 686 00:30:11,180 --> 00:30:07,409 call it we're coming through to her I'm 687 00:30:14,449 --> 00:30:11,190 sure they also you know emitted some 688 00:30:16,459 --> 00:30:14,459 form of transmission and she is 689 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:16,469 obviously an excellent receiver for this 690 00:30:23,449 --> 00:30:18,089 I was wondering if there was some other 691 00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:23,459 way to detect it in the room but yeah I 692 00:30:30,859 --> 00:30:28,320 don't know with more it's expensive it's 693 00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:30,869 not an easy thing to do and I know Julie 694 00:30:34,879 --> 00:30:32,609 by shell is interested in trying to do 695 00:30:37,129 --> 00:30:34,889 more of this kind of thing herself it 696 00:30:39,589 --> 00:30:37,139 just takes a you know a certain amount 697 00:30:41,539 --> 00:30:39,599 of planning and financing and all of 698 00:30:45,259 --> 00:30:41,549 that but I I think it's an area that 699 00:30:47,209 --> 00:30:45,269 that really would be really excellent to 700 00:30:49,159 --> 00:30:47,219 pursue and could teach us a lot I think 701 00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:49,169 about what's going on well I'm pretty 702 00:30:52,399 --> 00:30:50,849 sure yeah because when you think what 703 00:30:54,889 --> 00:30:52,409 your cell phone can pick up with a 704 00:30:58,069 --> 00:30:54,899 pretty high which is a primitive 705 00:31:00,859 --> 00:30:58,079 receptor and all that information is out 706 00:31:03,649 --> 00:31:00,869 there if you could get a human brain to 707 00:31:05,659 --> 00:31:03,659 start accessing that information not 708 00:31:08,479 --> 00:31:05,669 necessarily from people who have passed 709 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:08,489 on but in general it would be sort of 710 00:31:12,649 --> 00:31:11,129 fascinating to know and I think that's 711 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:12,659 what the mediums do they have the like 712 00:31:17,330 --> 00:31:15,090 this antenna that it's able to see 713 00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:17,340 information that a lot of us are not 714 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:19,320 able to perceive so it's it's very 715 00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:22,440 fascinating and I was just really I was 716 00:31:27,410 --> 00:31:24,840 very careful to make sure that the 717 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:27,420 mediums I visited had no idea who I was 718 00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:29,010 and they were phone and you know they 719 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:31,200 were pretty carefully controlled as far 720 00:31:35,090 --> 00:31:32,970 as I was concerned and I was really 721 00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:35,100 stunned with the accuracy of the 722 00:31:38,390 --> 00:31:36,840 information that came through that was a 723 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:38,400 real mind-opening 724 00:31:43,780 --> 00:31:40,530 experience for me you did an excellent 725 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:43,790 job and you know having it be a blind 726 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:47,250 experiment several of these readings it 727 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:49,170 was a very excellent job you did of that 728 00:31:54,290 --> 00:31:51,810 I always wanted you I made sure to take 729 00:31:56,330 --> 00:31:54,300 a fake name and all of that fake address 730 00:31:59,090 --> 00:31:56,340 fake email address and everything else 731 00:32:01,070 --> 00:31:59,100 so it's just so annoying that when you 732 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:01,080 deal with anything in the paranormal you 733 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:03,810 have to be so uber cautious whereas in 734 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:07,290 general science you know well 97% of our 735 00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:09,450 subjects with this the other 3% well we 736 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:11,670 don't really know you know it's annoying 737 00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:15,690 to me you know like you have to be so 738 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:17,580 extraordinary careful when you deal with 739 00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:20,490 the paranormal I mean right well it's 740 00:32:24,890 --> 00:32:23,310 true because it is so hard to accept you 741 00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:24,900 know you've got to be extra careful and 742 00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,000 you know that's I respect that I'm happy 743 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:30,480 to be as careful as I can you were you 744 00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:32,910 know I tried to be in the book for the 745 00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:36,480 evidence for paranormal functioning SCI 746 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:40,160 functioning if you will is much greater 747 00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:46,170 shows a lot more mathematical certainty 748 00:32:51,170 --> 00:32:49,350 than the idea that taking a baby aspirin 749 00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,180 will prevent you from having a heart 750 00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:53,460 attack and look at all the people all 751 00:32:59,720 --> 00:32:56,070 around the world who were taking baby 752 00:33:03,140 --> 00:32:59,730 aspirins to prevent heart attacks who 753 00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:03,150 don't believe inside functioning that's 754 00:33:06,890 --> 00:33:04,620 an interesting point I mean you know I 755 00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:06,900 think if you read this book and you know 756 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:08,430 there's other places people can look as 757 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:11,550 well but the big question is not whether 758 00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:13,770 psy functioning is real I mean it is 759 00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:17,190 absolutely undisputable that some kind 760 00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,080 of psychic functioning is occurring in 761 00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:21,120 the cases that I've presented the 762 00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:23,190 question is whether the origin of them 763 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:26,220 is from a deceased person or from human 764 00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:29,090 beings but you can't deny that 765 00:33:34,159 --> 00:33:31,950 abilities of these people to perceive 766 00:33:37,399 --> 00:33:34,169 things that beyond the five senses is 767 00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:37,409 absolutely genuine and even you know 768 00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:39,750 even that is something that scientist so 769 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:41,070 many scientists have a hard time 770 00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:44,130 acknowledging is valid but it's just 771 00:33:48,380 --> 00:33:46,500 beyond my comprehension how they can 772 00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:48,390 look at some of these cases and deny 773 00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:51,630 that but they do well there are there 774 00:33:56,659 --> 00:33:54,510 are of course skeptics 775 00:33:58,159 --> 00:33:56,669 and then there are debunkers and as 776 00:34:00,649 --> 00:33:58,169 where I know they're not the same thing 777 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:00,659 we know that I know that from the UFO 778 00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:02,250 topic too and it's very similar with 779 00:34:06,620 --> 00:34:04,860 this as well yeah I have one weird 780 00:34:10,399 --> 00:34:06,630 question to ask you just out of 781 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:10,409 curiosity you said that you met Stuart 782 00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:13,649 Alexander the physical medium you said 783 00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:16,560 that you met him because he was giving a 784 00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:20,550 talk at a UFO presentation so just out 785 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:22,800 of curiosity what was his connection to 786 00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:25,770 UFOs in addition to being a physical 787 00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,320 medium i-i-i was fascinated by that 788 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:30,720 little today actually that wasn't the 789 00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:33,149 case he was giving a seminar which 790 00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:35,580 involves mediumship basically Oh which 791 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:37,710 he does semi annal annually when other 792 00:34:42,260 --> 00:34:39,330 people organize it and he just invited 793 00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,270 me to give a talk there on UFOs because 794 00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:44,280 he thought his participants would be 795 00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,470 interested in the topic that was all but 796 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:48,960 the focus was not on UFOs okay that I 797 00:34:56,450 --> 00:34:52,649 misread that yeah no that's okay and he 798 00:34:58,820 --> 00:34:56,460 he does these seminars twice a year and 799 00:35:01,220 --> 00:34:58,830 there's usually a group of people that 800 00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:01,230 come pretty regularly but they're 801 00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:03,300 becoming more and more popular more and 802 00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:05,820 more kind of known now so that was the 803 00:35:09,410 --> 00:35:08,040 yeah that was how it all happened and I 804 00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:09,420 didn't end up spending a lot of time 805 00:35:11,359 --> 00:35:10,740 with him and have since gotten to know 806 00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:11,369 him very well 807 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:14,220 sounds very very fascinating also 808 00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:18,710 fascinating is the the Canadian 809 00:35:25,070 --> 00:35:22,520 experiment where they created this 810 00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:25,080 actually it would seem to me that they 811 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:27,660 created a Tulpa you know one of those 812 00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:31,170 beings that once created continues to 813 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:35,040 have an existence outside of the person 814 00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:38,130 Aleister Crowley created a Tulpa 815 00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:40,680 I think some some British woman who 816 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:42,900 travelled to India created a Tulpa 817 00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:45,090 other people could see but it would seem 818 00:35:53,420 --> 00:35:49,200 like this group in in in Canada created 819 00:35:54,110 --> 00:35:53,430 this being that then had it's a life of 820 00:35:57,650 --> 00:35:54,120 its own 821 00:35:59,780 --> 00:35:57,660 on some level yeah this court of like 822 00:36:02,960 --> 00:35:59,790 being a mini God these people were like 823 00:36:03,860 --> 00:36:02,970 many gods in a sense yeah well you think 824 00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:03,870 you're talking about the Philip 825 00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:06,660 experiments in the 1970s up in Canada 826 00:36:11,090 --> 00:36:08,310 where you mentioned it yeah yeah exactly 827 00:36:13,490 --> 00:36:11,100 and where this group as you said they 828 00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:13,500 they focused for many months probably at 829 00:36:18,890 --> 00:36:15,270 least six months on sort of creating 830 00:36:21,770 --> 00:36:18,900 this life of this person in their minds 831 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:21,780 all the details of the person's life who 832 00:36:26,990 --> 00:36:23,910 they called Philip and and he had died 833 00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,000 and you know England some centuries 834 00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:29,520 earlier and yeah what was important was 835 00:36:33,770 --> 00:36:31,320 that then they were working with the 836 00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,780 table and they were getting this entity 837 00:36:37,870 --> 00:36:35,760 to respond to their questions through 838 00:36:41,420 --> 00:36:37,880 table tilting and knocks and things and 839 00:36:43,850 --> 00:36:41,430 the entity could not answer any question 840 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:43,860 that they had not previously provided 841 00:36:48,170 --> 00:36:46,290 the information for so basically this 842 00:36:50,660 --> 00:36:48,180 was like a self-created kind of 843 00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:50,670 poltergeist entity and it what it 844 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:53,790 illustrates is that human beings do have 845 00:36:59,150 --> 00:36:56,490 the capacity to have these kinds of 846 00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,160 psychokinetic events occur without 847 00:37:03,830 --> 00:37:02,160 tapping into any kind of dead person so 848 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:03,840 a lot of people who will do table 849 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:06,090 tilting you know might or things like 850 00:37:09,590 --> 00:37:07,890 Ouija boards and things like that where 851 00:37:11,870 --> 00:37:09,600 there's a lot of psychokinesis going on 852 00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:11,880 might assume that that can't happen 853 00:37:16,670 --> 00:37:14,640 without some kind of spirit being 854 00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:16,680 involved but actually these experiments 855 00:37:20,780 --> 00:37:18,240 have shown that that's not always the 856 00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:20,790 case that human beings can be 857 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:22,740 facilitators for these kinds of events 858 00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:24,450 without any kind of spirit being 859 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:26,480 involved this was like a self created 860 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:29,310 entity that they so that that was a 861 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:31,170 really interesting point I think it's 862 00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:33,930 important to note that um you know human 863 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:37,110 beings can also facilitate all kinds of 864 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:39,090 psychic events that can occur and 865 00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,890 poltergeist is sort of an example of 866 00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:43,200 that and this is a more sort of advanced 867 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:44,760 poltergeist scenario because they were 868 00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:46,850 able to actually create it themselves 869 00:37:51,650 --> 00:37:50,190 intentionally so yeah it's really that's 870 00:37:53,810 --> 00:37:51,660 why I wanted to sort of that was my 871 00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:53,820 chapter that sort of brings us gradually 872 00:37:58,250 --> 00:37:56,460 towards being able to accept 873 00:38:00,920 --> 00:37:58,260 the Sun kind of psychokinetic in vents 874 00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,930 that occur in the seance Remini as you 875 00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,880 mentioned I've been very careful how 876 00:38:07,460 --> 00:38:04,800 I've structured the book so that I take 877 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:07,470 a person from the sort of simpler more 878 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:10,170 easily acceptable things initially and 879 00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:12,090 then walk them through various stages of 880 00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:14,520 things and one thing leads to another 881 00:38:19,580 --> 00:38:17,040 very naturally and so by the end is when 882 00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:19,590 you get to the as you mentioned earlier 883 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:21,540 the more you could use the word exotic I 884 00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,210 like that word exotic things that are 885 00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:26,640 harder to accept but they're just as 886 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:29,820 real as anything that I I have described 887 00:38:35,180 --> 00:38:32,730 earlier in the book so well you do talk 888 00:38:37,790 --> 00:38:35,190 about your personal experiments and the 889 00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:37,800 first one sort of was I could sort of 890 00:38:42,350 --> 00:38:40,140 get but the second one with the hand of 891 00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,360 materializing you might want to discuss 892 00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:44,880 that for the sake of our audience but 893 00:38:52,250 --> 00:38:47,400 that one that was a little difficult for 894 00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:52,260 me to yeah I can understand that it was 895 00:38:59,120 --> 00:38:54,660 very real for you my goodness what 896 00:39:01,520 --> 00:38:59,130 happened many other people besides 897 00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:01,530 myself so when you when you actually 898 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:03,240 have that experience and you're touching 899 00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,450 it and you're watching it form it's 900 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:08,880 mind-blowing and I can understand why 901 00:39:12,290 --> 00:39:10,770 for anyone who hasn't had the experience 902 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:12,300 it would be difficult to accept but I'm 903 00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:14,730 trying to sort of in the book show how 904 00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:17,310 other instances of hands being 905 00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:19,710 materialized have been documented in 906 00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:21,900 very very tightly controlled conditions 907 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:24,960 by experts scientists and we have many 908 00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:26,910 cases of that having a Kurt so I'm 909 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:29,820 hoping that having read that first that 910 00:39:33,250 --> 00:39:31,650 it might make it easier for the reader 911 00:39:35,630 --> 00:39:33,260 to accept it when I've actually 912 00:39:36,830 --> 00:39:35,640 experienced it myself but what 913 00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:36,840 everybody's going to react differently 914 00:39:45,110 --> 00:39:40,670 to that what do you think of the idea of 915 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:45,120 consensual reality in other words many 916 00:39:52,250 --> 00:39:48,050 people who are more philosophers than 917 00:39:55,790 --> 00:39:52,260 psychic readers or or parapsychologists 918 00:39:58,850 --> 00:39:55,800 are of the opinion that we all create 919 00:40:01,460 --> 00:39:58,860 our own consensual reality that that 920 00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:01,470 reality may not come just from you 921 00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:03,870 lesley cane or just from me for russia 922 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:08,430 but is like we all accept that certain 923 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:10,370 things are true so that they are 924 00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:13,730 we have created the world in some way 925 00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:17,300 like like little tiny pieces of God you 926 00:40:22,690 --> 00:40:19,670 know that we could all sort of create 927 00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:22,700 the world and therefore why not a 928 00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,420 physical hand yeah I mean I I can't 929 00:40:30,460 --> 00:40:28,400 speak to that again it's it's philosophy 930 00:40:32,020 --> 00:40:30,470 and it's in my book is so focused on 931 00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:32,030 journalism you know of just trying to 932 00:40:36,820 --> 00:40:34,910 present information and I just throw it 933 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:36,830 out formation yeah it's it's absolutely 934 00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:38,930 right on and fascinating it's just 935 00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:41,510 something sort of beyond my capability 936 00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:44,540 to address I hate to tell you you you're 937 00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:45,920 both absolutely wonderful and I could 938 00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:48,470 talk to you for a long time but I have a 939 00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:50,830 I have to be going now unfortunately 940 00:40:58,690 --> 00:40:56,840 well thank them wanting more or less are 941 00:41:00,640 --> 00:40:58,700 just wonderful to speak with and I so 942 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:00,650 much like talking to you I wish I didn't 943 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,570 have this other appointment lined up you 944 00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,640 just say the name of your book yes 945 00:41:09,820 --> 00:41:07,280 publisher etc because otherwise you know 946 00:41:11,860 --> 00:41:09,830 we won't get any sales great absolutely 947 00:41:14,770 --> 00:41:11,870 the book is called surviving death a 948 00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:14,780 journalist investigates evidence for an 949 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:18,020 afterlife and my last name is spelled ke 950 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:21,050 a n and you can go to my website which 951 00:41:28,450 --> 00:41:23,810 is surviving death cane my last name 952 00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:28,460 attached dot-com and on that website you 953 00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,110 can find information about the book and 954 00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,480 my UFO book and I'm also very active on 955 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:34,160 Facebook and would love people to visit 956 00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,530 me there and I thank you both so much 957 00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:39,200 for talking with me about this book it's 958 00:41:43,060 --> 00:41:40,160 meant a lot to me 959 00:41:45,010 --> 00:41:43,070 thank you thank you and best of luck 960 00:41:47,050 --> 00:41:45,020 forget everything really thank you again 961 00:41:50,380 --> 00:41:47,060 take care it I was like ok take care bye 962 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:50,390 bye bye right well so what do you think 963 00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:52,250 well I think I think it's a really 964 00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:55,520 wonderful book I was really read it yeah 965 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:00,160 and I do understand her her reasons for 966 00:42:07,150 --> 00:42:04,850 structuring it as she did and I just 967 00:42:12,490 --> 00:42:07,160 wonder about that third idea well I 968 00:42:14,620 --> 00:42:12,500 guess you know it's it's I you know not 969 00:42:22,990 --> 00:42:14,630 to beat a dead horse to death but we are 970 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:23,000 all time you know I I find it very 971 00:42:27,609 --> 00:42:24,170 interesting a lot of 972 00:42:30,099 --> 00:42:27,619 frontways for for example I think what 973 00:42:33,250 --> 00:42:30,109 we call instincts in animal is actually 974 00:42:35,410 --> 00:42:33,260 they have a receptor in their brain for 975 00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:35,420 information that is necessary for their 976 00:42:38,650 --> 00:42:36,079 survival 977 00:42:43,690 --> 00:42:38,660 yeah first I had to build nest you know 978 00:42:47,339 --> 00:42:43,700 I don't know many many things but 979 00:42:50,380 --> 00:42:47,349 someone had to create that information 980 00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:50,390 somewhere in somewhere somehow even 981 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:53,990 something yeah and so I think there's 982 00:43:00,130 --> 00:42:56,450 just tons and tons of information out 983 00:43:02,980 --> 00:43:00,140 there and you have to wonder you know 984 00:43:04,180 --> 00:43:02,990 what we're it all came from absolutely I 985 00:43:06,430 --> 00:43:04,190 don't think we'll ever know 986 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:06,440 well you might know but you might not be 987 00:43:15,010 --> 00:43:12,650 able to tell me right off yeah yeah well 988 00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,020 anyway I'm sorry you had some other 989 00:43:21,609 --> 00:43:18,319 information for us excuse me I'm sorry 990 00:43:24,220 --> 00:43:21,619 that's okay it had concerning our next 991 00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:24,230 guest which would be dr. Milton 992 00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:27,220 Wainwright right and he's a proponent of 993 00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:32,960 panspermia British professor I always 994 00:43:37,329 --> 00:43:34,910 wonder why they call it pants burger or 995 00:43:40,839 --> 00:43:37,339 not and okay I'm gonna take it yeah go 996 00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:40,849 right ahead anyway was I will say very 997 00:43:46,359 --> 00:43:43,839 nice things so I think you should really 998 00:43:48,579 --> 00:43:46,369 tune in for that particular one 999 00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,589 panspermia is basically the idea that 1000 00:43:53,470 --> 00:43:51,440 life permeates the universe right and is 1001 00:43:56,829 --> 00:43:53,480 spread throughout life is ubiquitous 1002 00:44:00,039 --> 00:43:56,839 throughout the universe see even if it's 1003 00:44:03,609 --> 00:44:00,049 in small doses like little little cells 1004 00:44:05,620 --> 00:44:03,619 little one celled organisms little well 1005 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:05,630 you know what Arizona like well I like 1006 00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:07,970 in every life form on this planet has 1007 00:44:13,809 --> 00:44:11,599 DNA at its basis and my little theory on 1008 00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:13,819 that is that DNA is a molecule it 1009 00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:17,540 captures energy and then transforms it 1010 00:44:21,549 --> 00:44:19,670 into a life form suitable to the 1011 00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:21,559 environment in which it finds itself and 1012 00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:25,520 I think it has that much plasticity in 1013 00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:28,250 its ability to do that so that I think 1014 00:44:35,380 --> 00:44:31,609 you I think DNA is ubiquitous as you say 1015 00:44:37,299 --> 00:44:35,390 and I think we're going to find if we 1016 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:37,309 could look ahead a thousand years some 1017 00:44:40,490 --> 00:44:37,890 really 1018 00:44:42,740 --> 00:44:40,500 interesting and weird life-forms out I 1019 00:44:44,330 --> 00:44:42,750 mean if you go back on this planet 200 1020 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:44,340 million years ago it would look like a 1021 00:44:49,340 --> 00:44:45,930 whole alien planet 1022 00:44:51,350 --> 00:44:49,350 absolutely so you know and and but 1023 00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:51,360 anyway so that that will be a very 1024 00:44:57,110 --> 00:44:54,060 interesting discussion because he's also 1025 00:44:59,180 --> 00:44:57,120 here you go up faroush it ready another 1026 00:45:03,950 --> 00:44:59,190 famous person that studies that is 1027 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:03,960 Chandra look I promise I see and and not 1028 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:06,330 only that but dr. Milton Wainwright 1029 00:45:17,060 --> 00:45:14,730 uh-huh knows Chandra it's good he has a 1030 00:45:18,980 --> 00:45:17,070 good sense to you but much more 1031 00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:18,990 importantly we have an upcoming event 1032 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:22,160 where you can join us in that Pine Bush 1033 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:26,730 Bush UFO Festival on May 20th 2017 it's 1034 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:29,850 really fun we will be there now most of 1035 00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:35,250 the day is fun family stuff yeah you can 1036 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:37,440 bring costumes and all people won't 1037 00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:39,810 think you're weird and actually they 1038 00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:43,440 have a UFO patrol car and a lot of 1039 00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:46,800 people dressed up as aliens and wear 1040 00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:50,640 your UFO costumes adults they do her 1041 00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:53,580 your UFO costumes and they have good 1042 00:45:59,660 --> 00:45:56,100 food too yeah they have the local 1043 00:46:03,440 --> 00:45:59,670 restaurants are serving and the cup and 1044 00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:03,450 saucer cafe which the saucer is a flying 1045 00:46:09,380 --> 00:46:07,470 saucer and there are other kinds of 1046 00:46:12,380 --> 00:46:09,390 foods are being served out of food 1047 00:46:16,070 --> 00:46:12,390 trucks mm-hmm in addition we may be 1048 00:46:18,410 --> 00:46:16,080 participating mm-hmm in besides of 1049 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:18,420 having a table there we are expecting 1050 00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:21,210 that we will be interviewing people who 1051 00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:24,240 are experiences and some of the speakers 1052 00:46:32,540 --> 00:46:27,660 there is some small possibility that I 1053 00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:32,550 will be speaking on a group of theories 1054 00:46:39,740 --> 00:46:37,380 of surrounding alien possible alien 1055 00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:39,750 evolution and these are theories but 1056 00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,150 there is a decent possibility I'll be 1057 00:46:47,210 --> 00:46:44,160 speaking about that in the afternoon at 1058 00:46:51,570 --> 00:46:47,220 the afternoon group and so please come 1059 00:46:53,870 --> 00:46:51,580 on out May 20th and to 1060 00:46:57,150 --> 00:46:53,880 prior to that for dr. Milton Wainwright 1061 00:47:00,750 --> 00:46:57,160 proponent of panspermia and he does some 1062 00:47:04,380 --> 00:47:00,760 inexpensive experiments with weather 1063 00:47:08,030 --> 00:47:04,390 balloons where he sends up something 1064 00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:08,040 akin to a cassette player that is 1065 00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:11,470 wrapped up so it's hermetically sealed 1066 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:14,590 and it opens when it gets above the 1067 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:16,930 stratosphere when it gets into the edge 1068 00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:21,730 of space these dishes open up and they 1069 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:26,710 collect samples of one celled organisms 1070 00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:28,930 and things that are living up there that 1071 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:32,280 shouldn't be living up there and he then 1072 00:47:38,490 --> 00:47:36,130 closes the tray it reseals itself and he 1073 00:47:40,050 --> 00:47:38,500 brings the weather balloon down and so 1074 00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:40,060 he's going to share those experiments 1075 00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:42,609 with us which I think what could be more 1076 00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:46,390 fascinating than that of had nothing too 1077 00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:54,670 much nothing too much no okay it's Kate 1078 00:48:18,600 --> 00:47:58,240 Valentine and foucha and I will see you 1079 00:48:18,610 --> 00:48:29,370 [Music]